Monday, October 29, 2007


Just thinking... My favourite headline of all time comes from an American newspaper in 1980 - I read it in Rolling Stone's review of the year...

Right to Lifers demand mandatory death penalty


Anonymous said...

I prefer my wife's favourite:-
"York girl fails to reach quarter-finals".

Anonymous said...

There are a lot of absolute right-to-lifers in the US, mostly Catholic. I respect their position because it's principled, but I don't agree with it. There is a crucial difference between a child and a criminal.

Peter Risdon said...

There is a crucial difference between a child and a criminal.

Yes, I agree with you there.

I'm still trying to get over the picture I saw a few days ago of a late term aborted foetus. Actually, it was a dead baby. I'm debating posting it myself.

I'm having increasing difficulty with abortion, and decreasing difficulty with the death penalty in some extreme cases, but still support the former and oppose the latter.

I'd let the child-murderers who are trying to commit suicide in our jails go ahead and do it, though. Ian Brady and Ian Huntley, specifically.

Anonymous said...

As a catholic i totally reject my Churchs position in the entire debate. I think its important to understand the position someone finds themselves in regards abortion (speaking as someone who has been in that desperate position) and also the facts and figures about late term abortion in particular the reasons for them. Im not sure i can think of another debate so crucial in which the actual facts have been so sorely missing from a discussion.

Peter Risdon said...

I know that, ADm. I think I'd know it even if I hadn't spent a night holding a girl I knew at university, as she wept and spoke about the five abortions she'd had during a relationship with an Irish catholic who wouldn't use contraception, and required her to "deal with it" every time she became pregnant. I guess that was abortion as contraception. But was she to become a single mother of five in her mid-twenties, watching his receding back as, inevitably, he walked away?

The moral responsibility was his rather than hers in that case. The lifelong pain was hers.

I think abortion should be legal. I also have increasing difficulty with it.

Anonymous said...

God, i dont mean you. I hope you dont think i was being dismissive of your view. I respect it totally. I dont think anyone is ever 'pro abortion'. I meant the idiots ive read on blogs who thrash around in this debate so cluelessly. Ive had one such blogger suggest that back street abortions were a myth. Even when telling him about my grandmother who used a spare room to nurse women back to health in the 50s who had suffered at the hands of back street abortionists - he still refused to listen (he wasnt alone). It is that mentality that contributes to this debate and is most gauling to read. But we still need to look at the facts and complex issues. There were more abortions here for 24 weeks and plus from non residents than there were residents last year. Albeit we are talking a couple hundred or so in total only for late term. Almost double this for non res. Given some of the non residents who contribute to the overall stats include French and German, US, UAE defined as non-residents i suspect they contribute to the later term figures. Which speaks to the time limit in their own countries and of utter desperation.

"The moral responsibility was his rather than hers in that case. The lifelong pain was hers"

Looking at the figures more than half of the current abortion stats register a woman with a partner. Its tragic this debate ignores the fact that partners contribute to a decision . Not always in a 'positive' basis (as i myself found). Similar to your friend. My heart goes out to her.

The history of abortion in this country is not strongly linked to feminism and sexual liberation. The impact America has on this debate is wacko in that respect. Hugh Hefner bankrolled the abortion movement there. About the same time feminists were hooking up with him on all sorts of angry issues, including the porn debate. Small wonder the debate became so political, heated and now feels so polarised between feminists and everyone else. And look who was behind it!

In the 90s the abortion nos dropped off significantly in the UK. I often wonder why we dont examine why?

Anonymous said...

(sorry for rambling!)

Anonymous said...

The debate in the US is about two different things. One topic is abortion. The other is the Supreme Court's disgraceful behaviour on the Wade-Roe case. The Justices chose to pretend that abortion was a constitutional issue under the aegis of the federal constitution, rather than an issue for the States. They then imposed a change on the whole of the USA without there being the sort of debate which would be necessary if change were to be made in State legislatures. Without debate, there was no persuasion, and, of course, one side felt - quite rightly - cheated. At least in Britain the legislature decided, and can change the law again. A Constitution is of limited use if your Constitutional Court establishes a habit of ignoring it on whim.

Peter Risdon said...

Hey, ADM, no rambling there. And I didn't take it personally at all. This is a difficult subject.